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Technical: A Brief History of Payment Channels: from Satoshi to Lightning Network
Who cares about political tweets from some random country's president when payment channels are a much more interesting and are actually capable of carrying value? So let's have a short history of various payment channel techs!
Generation 0: Satoshi's Broken nSequence Channels
Because Satoshi's Vision included payment channels, except his implementation sucked so hard we had to go fix it and added RBF as a by-product. Originally, the plan for nSequence was that mempools would replace any transaction spending certain inputs with another transaction spending the same inputs, but only if the nSequence field of the replacement was larger. Since 0xFFFFFFFF was the highest value that nSequence could get, this would mark a transaction as "final" and not replaceable on the mempool anymore. In fact, this "nSequence channel" I will describe is the reason why we have this weird rule about nLockTime and nSequence. nLockTime actually only works if nSequence is not 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. final. If nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF then nLockTime is ignored, because this if the "final" version of the transaction. So what you'd do would be something like this:
You go to a bar and promise the bartender to pay by the time the bar closes. Because this is the Bitcoin universe, time is measured in blockheight, so the closing time of the bar is indicated as some future blockheight.
For your first drink, you'd make a transaction paying to the bartender for that drink, paying from some coins you have. The transaction has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, and a starting nSequence of 0. You hand over the transaction and the bartender hands you your drink.
For your succeeding drink, you'd remake the same transaction, adding the payment for that drink to the transaction output that goes to the bartender (so that output keeps getting larger, by the amount of payment), and having an nSequence that is one higher than the previous one.
Eventually you have to stop drinking. It comes down to one of two possibilities:
You drink until the bar closes. Since it is now the nLockTime indicated in the transaction, the bartender is able to broadcast the latest transaction and tells the bouncers to kick you out of the bar.
You wisely consider the state of your liver. So you re-sign the last transaction with a "final" nSequence of 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. the maximum possible value it can have. This allows the bartender to get his or her funds immediately (nLockTime is ignored if nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF), so he or she tells the bouncers to let you out of the bar.
Now that of course is a payment channel. Individual payments (purchases of alcohol, so I guess buying coffee is not in scope for payment channels). Closing is done by creating a "final" transaction that is the sum of the individual payments. Sure there's no routing and channels are unidirectional and channels have a maximum lifetime but give Satoshi a break, he was also busy inventing Bitcoin at the time. Now if you noticed I called this kind of payment channel "broken". This is because the mempool rules are not consensus rules, and cannot be validated (nothing about the mempool can be validated onchain: I sigh every time somebody proposes "let's make block size dependent on mempool size", mempool state cannot be validated by onchain data). Fullnodes can't see all of the transactions you signed, and then validate that the final one with the maximum nSequence is the one that actually is used onchain. So you can do the below:
Become friends with Jihan Wu, because he owns >51% of the mining hashrate (he totally reorged Bitcoin to reverse the Binance hack right?).
Slip Jihan Wu some of the more interesting drinks you're ordering as an incentive to cooperate with you. So say you end up ordering 100 drinks, you split it with Jihan Wu and give him 50 of the drinks.
When the bar closes, Jihan Wu quickly calls his mining rig and tells them to mine the version of your transaction with nSequence 0. You know, that first one where you pay for only one drink.
Because fullnodes cannot validate nSequence, they'll accept even the nSequence=0 version and confirm it, immutably adding you paying for a single alcoholic drink to the blockchain.
The bartender, pissed at being cheated, takes out a shotgun from under the bar and shoots at you and Jihan Wu.
Jihan Wu uses his mystical chi powers (actually the combined exhaust from all of his mining rigs) to slow down the shotgun pellets, making them hit you as softly as petals drifting in the wind.
The bartender mutters some words, clothes ripping apart as he or she (hard to believe it could be a she but hey) turns into a bear, ready to maul you for cheating him or her of the payment for all the 100 drinks you ordered from him or her.
Steely-eyed, you stand in front of the bartender-turned-bear, daring him to touch you. You've watched Revenant, you know Leonardo di Caprio could survive a bear mauling, and if some posh actor can survive that, you know you can too. You make a pose. "Drunken troll logic attack!"
I think I got sidetracked here.
Bears are bad news.
You can't reasonably invoke "Satoshi's Vision" and simultaneously reject the Lightning Network because it's not onchain. Satoshi's Vision included a half-assed implementation of payment channels with nSequence, where the onchain transaction represented multiple logical payments, exactly what modern offchain techniques do (except modern offchain techniques actually work). nSequence (the field, but not its modern meaning) has been in Bitcoin since BitCoin For Windows Alpha 0.1.0. And its original intent was payment channels. You can't get nearer to Satoshi's Vision than being a field that Satoshi personally added to transactions on the very first public release of the BitCoin software, like srsly.
Miners can totally bypass mempool rules. In fact, the reason why nSequence has been repurposed to indicate "optional" replace-by-fee is because miners are already incentivized by the nSequence system to always follow replace-by-fee anyway. I mean, what do you think those drinks you passed to Jihan Wu are, other than the fee you pay him to mine a specific version of your transaction?
Satoshi made mistakes. The original design for nSequence is one of them. Today, we no longer use nSequence in this way. So diverging from Satoshi's original design is part and parcel of Bitcoin development, because over time, we learn new lessons that Satoshi never knew about. Satoshi was an important landmark in this technology. He will not be the last, or most important, that we will remember in the future: he will only be the first.
Incentive-compatible time-limited unidirectional channel; or, Satoshi's Vision, Fixed (if transaction malleability hadn't been a problem, that is). Now, we know the bartender will turn into a bear and maul you if you try to cheat the payment channel, and now that we've revealed you're good friends with Jihan Wu, the bartender will no longer accept a payment channel scheme that lets one you cooperate with a miner to cheat the bartender. Fortunately, Jeremy Spilman proposed a better way that would not let you cheat the bartender. First, you and the bartender perform this ritual:
You get some funds and create a transaction that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig between you and the bartender. You don't broadcast this yet: you just sign it and get its txid.
You create another transaction that spends the above transaction. This transaction (the "backoff") has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, plus one block. You sign it and give this backoff transaction (but not the above transaction) to the bartender.
The bartender signs the backoff and gives it back to you. It is now valid since it's spending a 2-of-2 of you and the bartender, and both of you have signed the backoff transaction.
Now you broadcast the first transaction onchain. You and the bartender wait for it to be deeply confirmed, then you can start ordering.
The above is probably vaguely familiar to LN users. It's the funding process of payment channels! The first transaction, the one that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig, is the funding transaction that backs the payment channel funds. So now you start ordering in this way:
For your first drink, you create a transaction spending the funding transaction output and sending the price of the drink to the bartender, with the rest returning to you.
You sign the transaction and pass it to the bartender, who serves your first drink.
For your succeeding drinks, you recreate the same transaction, adding the price of the new drink to the sum that goes to the bartender and reducing the money returned to you. You sign the transaction and give it to the bartender, who serves you your next drink.
At the end:
If the bar closing time is reached, the bartender signs the latest transaction, completing the needed 2-of-2 signatures and broadcasting this to the Bitcoin network. Since the backoff transaction is the closing time + 1, it can't get used at closing time.
If you decide you want to leave early because your liver is crying, you just tell the bartender to go ahead and close the channel (which the bartender can do at any time by just signing and broadcasting the latest transaction: the bartender won't do that because he or she is hoping you'll stay and drink more).
If you ended up just hanging around the bar and never ordering, then at closing time + 1 you broadcast the backoff transaction and get your funds back in full.
Now, even if you pass 50 drinks to Jihan Wu, you can't give him the first transaction (the one which pays for only one drink) and ask him to mine it: it's spending a 2-of-2 and the copy you have only contains your own signature. You need the bartender's signature to make it valid, but he or she sure as hell isn't going to cooperate in something that would lose him or her money, so a signature from the bartender validating old state where he or she gets paid less isn't going to happen. So, problem solved, right? Right? Okay, let's try it. So you get your funds, put them in a funding tx, get the backoff tx, confirm the funding tx... Once the funding transaction confirms deeply, the bartender laughs uproariously. He or she summons the bouncers, who surround you menacingly. "I'm refusing service to you," the bartender says. "Fine," you say. "I was leaving anyway;" You smirk. "I'll get back my money with the backoff transaction, and posting about your poor service on reddit so you get negative karma, so there!" "Not so fast," the bartender says. His or her voice chills your bones. It looks like your exploitation of the Satoshi nSequence payment channel is still fresh in his or her mind. "Look at the txid of the funding transaction that got confirmed." "What about it?" you ask nonchalantly, as you flip open your desktop computer and open a reputable blockchain explorer. What you see shocks you. "What the --- the txid is different! You--- you changed my signature?? But how? I put the only copy of my private key in a sealed envelope in a cast-iron box inside a safe buried in the Gobi desert protected by a clan of nomads who have dedicated their lives and their childrens' lives to keeping my private key safe in perpetuity!" "Didn't you know?" the bartender asks. "The components of the signature are just very large numbers. The sign of one of the signature components can be changed, from positive to negative, or negative to positive, and the signature will remain valid. Anyone can do that, even if they don't know the private key. But because Bitcoin includes the signatures in the transaction when it's generating the txid, this little change also changes the txid." He or she chuckles. "They say they'll fix it by separating the signatures from the transaction body. They're saying that these kinds of signature malleability won't affect transaction ids anymore after they do this, but I bet I can get my good friend Jihan Wu to delay this 'SepSig' plan for a good while yet. Friendly guy, this Jihan Wu, it turns out all I had to do was slip him 51 drinks and he was willing to mine a tx with the signature signs flipped." His or her grin widens. "I'm afraid your backoff transaction won't work anymore, since it spends a txid that is not existent and will never be confirmed. So here's the deal. You pay me 99% of the funds in the funding transaction, in exchange for me signing the transaction that spends with the txid that you see onchain. Refuse, and you lose 100% of the funds and every other HODLer, including me, benefits from the reduction in coin supply. Accept, and you get to keep 1%. I lose nothing if you refuse, so I won't care if you do, but consider the difference of getting zilch vs. getting 1% of your funds." His or her eyes glow. "GENUFLECT RIGHT NOW." Lesson learned?
Payback's a bitch.
Transaction malleability is a bitchier bitch. It's why we needed to fix the bug in SegWit. Sure, MtGox claimed they were attacked this way because someone kept messing with their transaction signatures and thus they lost track of where their funds went, but really, the bigger impetus for fixing transaction malleability was to support payment channels.
Yes, including the signatures in the hash that ultimately defines the txid was a mistake. Satoshi made a lot of those. So we're just reiterating the lesson "Satoshi was not an infinite being of infinite wisdom" here. Satoshi just gets a pass because of how awesome Bitcoin is.
CLTV-protected Spilman Channels
Using CLTV for the backoff branch. This variation is simply Spilman channels, but with the backoff transaction replaced with a backoff branch in the SCRIPT you pay to. It only became possible after OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY (CLTV) was enabled in 2015. Now as we saw in the Spilman Channels discussion, transaction malleability means that any pre-signed offchain transaction can easily be invalidated by flipping the sign of the signature of the funding transaction while the funding transaction is not yet confirmed. This can be avoided by simply putting any special requirements into an explicit branch of the Bitcoin SCRIPT. Now, the backoff branch is supposed to create a maximum lifetime for the payment channel, and prior to the introduction of OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY this could only be done by having a pre-signed nLockTime transaction. With CLTV, however, we can now make the branches explicit in the SCRIPT that the funding transaction pays to. Instead of paying to a 2-of-2 in order to set up the funding transaction, you pay to a SCRIPT which is basically "2-of-2, OR this singlesig after a specified lock time". With this, there is no backoff transaction that is pre-signed and which refers to a specific txid. Instead, you can create the backoff transaction later, using whatever txid the funding transaction ends up being confirmed under. Since the funding transaction is immutable once confirmed, it is no longer possible to change the txid afterwards.
Todd Micropayment Networks
The old hub-spoke model (that isn't how LN today actually works). One of the more direct predecessors of the Lightning Network was the hub-spoke model discussed by Peter Todd. In this model, instead of payers directly having channels to payees, payers and payees connect to a central hub server. This allows any payer to pay any payee, using the same channel for every payee on the hub. Similarly, this allows any payee to receive from any payer, using the same channel. Remember from the above Spilman example? When you open a channel to the bartender, you have to wait around for the funding tx to confirm. This will take an hour at best. Now consider that you have to make channels for everyone you want to pay to. That's not very scalable. So the Todd hub-spoke model has a central "clearing house" that transport money from payers to payees. The "Moonbeam" project takes this model. Of course, this reveals to the hub who the payer and payee are, and thus the hub can potentially censor transactions. Generally, though, it was considered that a hub would more efficiently censor by just not maintaining a channel with the payer or payee that it wants to censor (since the money it owned in the channel would just be locked uselessly if the hub won't process payments to/from the censored user). In any case, the ability of the central hub to monitor payments means that it can surveill the payer and payee, and then sell this private transactional data to third parties. This loss of privacy would be intolerable today. Peter Todd also proposed that there might be multiple hubs that could transport funds to each other on behalf of their users, providing somewhat better privacy. Another point of note is that at the time such networks were proposed, only unidirectional (Spilman) channels were available. Thus, while one could be a payer, or payee, you would have to use separate channels for your income versus for your spending. Worse, if you wanted to transfer money from your income channel to your spending channel, you had to close both and reshuffle the money between them, both onchain activities.
Poon-Dryja Lightning Network
Bidirectional two-participant channels. The Poon-Dryja channel mechanism has two important properties:
No time limit.
Both the original Satoshi and the two Spilman variants are unidirectional: there is a payer and a payee, and if the payee wants to do a refund, or wants to pay for a different service or product the payer is providing, then they can't use the same unidirectional channel. The Poon-Dryjam mechanism allows channels, however, to be bidirectional instead: you are not a payer or a payee on the channel, you can receive or send at any time as long as both you and the channel counterparty are online. Further, unlike either of the Spilman variants, there is no time limit for the lifetime of a channel. Instead, you can keep the channel open for as long as you want. Both properties, together, form a very powerful scaling property that I believe most people have not appreciated. With unidirectional channels, as mentioned before, if you both earn and spend over the same network of payment channels, you would have separate channels for earning and spending. You would then need to perform onchain operations to "reverse" the directions of your channels periodically. Secondly, since Spilman channels have a fixed lifetime, even if you never used either channel, you would have to periodically "refresh" it by closing it and reopening. With bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels, you may instead open some channels when you first begin managing your own money, then close them only after your lawyers have executed your last will and testament on how the money in your channels get divided up to your heirs: that's just two onchain transactions in your entire lifetime. That is the potentially very powerful scaling property that bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels allow. I won't discuss the transaction structure needed for Poon-Dryja bidirectional channels --- it's complicated and you can easily get explanations with cute graphics elsewhere. There is a weakness of Poon-Dryja that people tend to gloss over (because it was fixed very well by RustyReddit):
You have to store all the revocation keys of a channel. This implies you are storing 1 revocation key for every channel update, so if you perform millions of updates over your entire lifetime, you'd be storing several megabytes of keys, for only a single channel. RustyReddit fixed this by requiring that the revocation keys be generated from a "Seed" revocation key, and every key is just the application of SHA256 on that key, repeatedly. For example, suppose I tell you that my first revocation key is SHA256(SHA256(seed)). You can store that in O(1) space. Then for the next revocation, I tell you SHA256(seed). From SHA256(key), you yourself can compute SHA256(SHA256(seed)) (i.e. the previous revocation key). So you can remember just the most recent revocation key, and from there you'd be able to compute every previous revocation key. When you start a channel, you perform SHA256 on your seed for several million times, then use the result as the first revocation key, removing one layer of SHA256 for every revocation key you need to generate. RustyReddit not only came up with this, but also suggested an efficient O(log n) storage structure, the shachain, so that you can quickly look up any revocation key in the past in case of a breach. People no longer really talk about this O(n) revocation storage problem anymore because it was solved very very well by this mechanism.
Another thing I want to emphasize is that while the Lightning Network paper and many of the earlier presentations developed from the old Peter Todd hub-and-spoke model, the modern Lightning Network takes the logical conclusion of removing a strict separation between "hubs" and "spokes". Any node on the Lightning Network can very well work as a hub for any other node. Thus, while you might operate as "mostly a payer", "mostly a forwarding node", "mostly a payee", you still end up being at least partially a forwarding node ("hub") on the network, at least part of the time. This greatly reduces the problems of privacy inherent in having only a few hub nodes: forwarding nodes cannot get significantly useful data from the payments passing through them, because the distance between the payer and the payee can be so large that it would be likely that the ultimate payer and the ultimate payee could be anyone on the Lightning Network. Lessons learned?
We can decentralize if we try hard enough!
"Hubs bad" can be made "hubs good" if everybody is a hub.
Smart people can solve problems. It's kinda why they're smart.
After LN, there's also the Decker-Wattenhofer Duplex Micropayment Channels (DMC). This post is long enough as-is, LOL. But for now, it uses a novel "decrementing nSequence channel", using the new relative-timelock semantics of nSequence (not the broken one originally by Satoshi). It actually uses multiple such "decrementing nSequence" constructs, terminating in a pair of Spilman channels, one in both directions (thus "duplex"). Maybe I'll discuss it some other time. The realization that channel constructions could actually hold more channel constructions inside them (the way the Decker-Wattenhofer puts a pair of Spilman channels inside a series of "decrementing nSequence channels") lead to the further thought behind Burchert-Decker-Wattenhofer channel factories. Basically, you could host multiple two-participant channel constructs inside a larger multiparticipant "channel" construct (i.e. host multiple channels inside a factory). Further, we have the Decker-Russell-Osuntokun or "eltoo" construction. I'd argue that this is "nSequence done right". I'll write more about this later, because this post is long enough. Lessons learned?
Bitcoin offchain scaling is more powerful than you ever thought.
In this short post I want to set out my case for the moral justifiability of 51% attacks against proof of work cryptocurrencies. In the past, a 51% attack was a theoretical construct that most people didn´t seem to think would be practically achievable or lucrative. This has now changed, as hashpower can be rented on sites like Nicehash and Mining Rig Rentals for a few hours at a time. The attack delivers the attacker two prominent opportunities: -You can orphan blocks of ¨legitimate¨ miners. This essentially means that whatever work was produced by legitimate miners during your attack became worthless. Mine a secret chain of two hours worth of blocks, release it and you orphaned 2 hours worth of blocks by your competitors. By the time most of the miners have noticed their blocks were orphaned in an attack, their nodes will have been automatically mining on your own chain for a while and it will be too late for them to do anything about it. The amount of money they lost would be equivalent to the amount you had to spend to produce your chain. Because mining is an industry with tight margins, the economic impact on these miners can be very big. The cost may be sufficient in case of a very long attack, to persuade them to quit their endeavor and get a real job. -The more important opportunity is that you´re able to double spend your coins. This is potentially, incredibly lucrative. How lucrative it is tends to depend primarily on the inflation rate of a cryptocurrency. A low inflation rate means relatively little ¨work¨ is done to maintain the security of the system. A high inflation rate on the other hand, turns the cryptocurrency into a very poor long-term investment. As a consequence, most cryptocurrencies face declining inflation rates, that delay the problem of their ultimately unsustainability into the future. The bank of international settlements explains this issue here. When it comes to the moral justification of a 51% attack, we first have to ask ourselves why proof of work is morally unjustifiable. There are two main reasons for this: -Proof of work has an enormous environmental impact, that ensures future generations will have to deal with the dramatic consequences of climate change. There is no proper justification for this environmental impact, as it delivers no clear benefits over existing payment systems other than the ability to carry out morally unjustifiable actions like blackmail. -Proof of work is fundamentally unsustainable, because of the economic burden it places on participants in cryptocurrency schemes. Cryptocurrencies can´t produce wealth out of thin air. The people who get rich from a cryptocurrency becomes rich, due to the fact that other people step in later. In this sense we´re dealing with a pyramid scheme, but the difference from regular pyramid schemes lies in the fact that huge sums of wealth are not merely redistributed, but destroyed, to sustain the scheme. The cost of the work to sustain the scheme is bigger than you might expect, because the reality is that relatively little money has entered bitcoin. JP Morgan claims that for the crypto assets at large, a fiat amplifier of 117.5 is present, as a purported $2 billion in net inflow pushed Bitcoin’s market capitalization from $15 billion to $250 billion. You have to consider that the Digiconomist estimates that $2.6 billion dollar leaves the Bitcoin scheme on an annual basis, in the form of mining costs to sustain Bitcoin. The vast majority of retail customers who entered this scheme ended up losing money from it. In some cases this lead to suicides. The fact that proof of work is morally unjustifiable doesn´t directly lead to a moral justification for a 51% attack. After all a sane society would use government intervention to eliminate the decentralized ponzi schemes that are cryptocurrencies. There are a few things that need to be considered however: -Governments have so far failed in their responsibility to address the cryptocurrency schemes. Instead you tend to see officials insist that proof of work might suck and most cryptocurrency is a scam, but ¨blockchain technology¨ will somehow change the world for the better. Most libertarians who saw these schemes emerge insisted that it´s stupid to participate in them because the government would eventually ban them and round up the people who participated in them. This didn´t happen because of the logistical difficulty of suppressing these schemes (anyone with an internet connection can set one up) as well as the fact that suppressing them would lend credence to the anti-government anarcho-capitalist ideology on which these schemes are based. Goverments might say ¨these schemes facilitate crime, ruin the environment and redistribute wealth from naive individuals to scammers¨, but anarcho-capitalists would insist that governments have grown so tyrannical that they want to ban you from exchanging numbers on computers. -Because cryptocurrency is fundamentally an online social arrangement, governments have very limited influence over the phenomenon. Binance seeks to become a stateless organization, not subject to the jurisdiction of any particular government. Just as with regular money laundering and tax evasion that hides in small nations that can earn huge sums of money by facilitating these practises, governments are dependent on the actions of individuals to address these practices. Whistleblowers released the panama papers and the tax evasion by German individuals through Swiss bank accounts. Through such individuals, the phenomenon could be properly addressed. In a similar manner, cryptocurrency schemes will need to be addressed through the actions of individuals who recognize the damage these schemes cause to the fabric of society. -The very nature of a 51% attack means that it primarily punishes those who set up and facilitate the cryptocurrency scheme in the first place. The miners who pollute our environment to satiate their own greed are bankrupted by the fact that their blocks are orphaned. The exchange operators are bankrupted due to double-spend attacks against the scams that they facilitate. When this happens, the cryptocurrency in question should lose value, which then destroys the incentive to devote huge sums of electricity to it. Finally, there´s the question of whether 51% attacks are viable as a response to cryptocurrency. There´s the obvious problem you run into, that the biggest and oldest scams are the most difficult to shut down. In addition, cryptocurrencies that fell victim to an attack tend to move towards a checkpoint system. However, there are a few things that need to be considered here: -51% attacks against small cryptocurrencies might not have a huge impact, but their benefit is nonetheless apparent. Most of the new scams don´t require participants to mine, instead the new schemes generally depend on ¨staking¨. If people had not engage in 51% attacks, the environmental impact would have been even bigger now. -51% attacks against currencies that implement checkpointing are not impossible, if the checkpoints are decentrally produced. What happens in that case is a chain split, as long as the hostile chain is released at the right time. This would mean that different exchanges may get stuck on different forks, which would still allow people to double spend their cryptocurrency. -There are other attacks that can be used against proof of work cryptocurrencies. The most important one is the block withholding attack. It´s possible for people who dislike a cryptocurrency to join a pool and to start mining. However, whenever the miner finds a valid solution that would produce a block, he fails to share the solution with the pool. This costs money for the pool operator, but it can be lucrative for the actor if he also operates a competing pool himself. In the best case it leads to miners moving to his pool, which then potentially allows him to execute a 51% attack against the cryptocurrency. -It´s possible to put up a 51% attack bounty, allowing others to do the work for you. This works as following. You make transaction A : 100 bitcoin to exchange X, for a fee of 0.001 BTC. Once this transaction has been included in a block, you immediately broadcast a conflicting transaction with another node: You´ŕe sending those 100 bitcoin to your own wallet, but you´re also including a 50 bitcoin fee for the miners. The miners now have a strong incentive to disregard the valid chain and to start mining a new chain on an older block that can still include your conflicting transaction. Provided that pool operators are rational economic agents, they should grab the opportunity. -Selfish mining in combination with a Sybil attack allows someone to eclipse the rest of the network, while controlling less than 51% of the hashrate. Your malicious nodes will simply refuse to propagante blocks of your competitors, thereby giving you more time to release your own block. Selfish mining will always be possible with 33% of the hashrate and as far as I can tell there are no pathways known currently to make the scheme impossible for people with 25% of the hashrate. This potentially makes a 51% attacks lucrative without having to carry out double-spend attacks against exchanges. Although double spending is a form of theft, it´s not clear to me whether a selfish mining attack would get you into legal trouble or not.
The dreaded 51% attack is a morally justifiable and potentially lucrative solution to the Nakamoto scheme.
The Mass-Shilling Campaign: What are the Top 50 Marketcap Coins in 5 words or less
I've seen a surge in posts on /new lately asking for a rundown of the top 100 coins. If you have a better description for any of these, PLEASE comment below and I'll add it in (don't just call me stupid!). Here goes: .
. Editors note: I do not endorse ANY of these coins. Some of them are scams but I tried to keep this unbiased. ALWAYS look for the critique on every coin. If I find the time, I will create a Mass-FUD Campaign, outlying the major flaws in each top 50 coin.
Author's Note: Elastos was discussed in this group twice, albeit 7 and 9 months ago, respectively. To do the project justice my intention is to give existing and new CryptoMoonShots group followers an update as the overall market has changed considerably and to factor in project-specific developments following the two mentions of Elastos here. Definitions: Content Creators and/or Developers: Individuals and enterprises that generate, design, and create digital assets. Digital Capital: An individuals videos, photos, written text, written or spoken ideas, music, time, and attention Big Tech: Companies like Alphabet, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Twitter to name a few. Project Introduction: The design philosophy of Elastos originated from Rong Chen, a former senior software engineer at Microsoft. Building on his experience at Microsoft, Chen wanted to create a platform in which applications and services are not allowed to access the Internet directly. Without access to the network, malware would not be able to steal user data or attack other services on the Internet. Chen’s vision was subsequently developed into an open-source, lightweight operating system for virtual machines (github.com/Elastos). In 2017, blockchain technology was integrated into Chen’s vision, enabling development of the Elastos Smart Web. The project is focused on developing a decentralized internet platform where digital assets are owned, distributed, and monetized by Content Creators and/or Developers that own it. To understand this, it is imperative to understand the current internet model (Internet 2.0). Big tech currently owns the internet and everything in it: your videos, your photos, your written text, your ideas, your music, your time, your attention - and the most important in this context - the means of distribution - let's call this Digital Capital. In the current model, Content Creators and/or Developers are forced to distribute their capital through channels owned by Big Tech, which rob creators of their rights and profits. Elastos is building the boundlessly scalable platform where digital capital can be published, distributed, and monetized by creators while allowing creators and developers to retain their rights. This platform will allow for decentralized applications (Dapps) to operate on a peer-to-peer network with no centralized control. Consumers can access these Dapps via their mobile phones without changing their operating system. The old Internet is a Web of information. If you click a URL, you get data. Elastos is creating a Web of apps. When you click a URL, you get code. The Elastos Web will be a special economic zone where Elastos tokens function as the base currency. The project is open-source software whose development process has been sponsored by industry giants such as the Tsinghua Science Park, the TD-SCDMA Industrial Alliance and the Foxconn Group for more than 200 million RMB. The project has published more than ten million lines of source code, including four million lines of original source code. The Elastos blockchain utilizes merged mining with Bitcoin, the process by which consensus is reached on both chains simultaneously. In this case, the Bitcoin blockchain works as the parent blockchain to Elastos, with the Elastos chain as its auxiliary blockchain. The mining pools will deploy merged mining code and miners will submit proof of work to both blockchains at the same time. Energy consumption does not increase with merged mining, and will be equal to the energy consumed for mining either alone. Through this mechanism, the Elastos blockchain has an extremely strong guarantee of computing power and will then be able to provide blockchain innovations at a global scale. It makes full use of existing Bitcoin computing resources in addition to being environmentally friendly. Live Products Elastos SPV Wallet Elastos provides an SPV Wallet SDK equipped with a series of wallet-related interfaces to enable users to develop unique wallets that connect to the Elastos blockchain. Sample applications are available now. Elastos Blockchain Merged Mining Elastos’ main public blockchain is merged mined with bitcoin, which enables pre-existing bitcoin miners to update their clients to simultaneously mine Elastos without expending excess energy. The merged mining is currently open only to the BTC.com mining pool. Elastos DID Sidechain Service Elastos provides a Decentralized ID (DID) Sidechain Service to be used in applications. On the Elastos ecosystem, every user, every device and every app has its own DID and can store any value that is associated with that ID on this sidechain. The DID service paves the way for a more secure and trustable internet, as this allows for seamless interoperability between DApps and IDs are assigned to users from the blockchain rather than having them assigned by a company. Elastos TV Box Although Elastos does not sell the TV Box directly, the Elastos Carrier is embedded inside. The Elastos TV Box is presently used for simple features such as remote control in a decentralized peer to peer fashion. In the future, these TV Boxes and many other IoT devices that have Elastos Carrier installed will be capable of running as IPFS nodes for supporting the distributed file storage network for the Elastos ecosystem. Elastos Dittobox Any individual can establish a unique dittobox server on a personal computer that integrates ownCloud server and Elastos Carrier. The dittobox server can be installed onto a computer behind the router, and all files stored on the server are accessible from anywhere in the world via the Elastos Carrier network. Beta Products Elastos Blockchain PoW + DPoS Elastos main blockchain will employ a hybrid consensus of PoW + DPoS where the PoW is merged mined with bitcoin and both are used to package blocks while the DPoS nodes are used for signing. This creates a finality in the blocks which will prevent the chain from forking. Elastos Token Sidechain Service Elastos DApps utilize this service to generate application-specific native tokens within the Elastos ecosystem. As such, each application can create its own token on demand, and without friction. Elastos Smart Contract Sidechain Service Elastos provides a unique sidechain service that is designated to running and executing smart contracts. These smart contracts are compatible with ERC20 and ERC721 tokens, which enables Ethereum DApps to run smoothly within the Elastos ecosystem. Elastos Hive Elastos will provide a distributed storage system that apps can utilize to store files, messages in a p2p chat, videos, music, and more. Elastos Elapay Elapay is a payment tool that enables payment with ELA. Two types of payments will be supported. The first is “Pay On Order,” which encompasses standard commercial purchases, and will require merchants to integrate Elapay service into their web apps in order to offer users this payment option alongside the likes of credit card and cash payments. The second is “Point to Point Pay,” which involves individuals exchanging funds between themselves. “Point to Point Pay” uses an html5 page that can be shared on social media outlets such as Facebook or Wechat to send or receive ELA. Elapay can be expended for a variety of purposes – from purchasing a virtual asset in an online video game to standard online shopping expenditures. It simply represents another method of paying for goods and services at checkout. Alpha Products Elastos Trinity A cross-platform browser application that runs on Android and will be available for iOS in the future. This is a form of the Elastos virtual machine and a demo of Elastos Runtime where decentralized applications written for Elastos run in a secure sandboxed environment. These are Ionic framework applications. Also, the SPV wallet functionality and the payment functions will be embedded inside the browser so that other DApps that run on Trinity can easily integrate with the available features. Elastos Carrier SDK Elastos Carrier provides SDK for Android (Java), iOS (Swift/Objective C), and nodeJS that can be utilized to connect to the decentralized peer to peer network that takes over all of the network traffic on the Elastos ecosystem, such as messaging, file transfer, and more. On January 16, 2019 the Intelligent Grouping and Resource Sharing (IGRS) board issued Elastos a formal membership certificate, thus making official its entrance into the IGRS Industry Association. In conjunction with Association members, Elastos will explore the opportunities and potential synergies presented by blockchain and IoT, in the joint hopes of creating a robust IoT industry ecosystem. Source: https://news.elastos.org/elastos-joins-the-igrs-industry-association/ Recently an ecosystem partner meetup revealed 900k TV Boxes sold and 180k registered DIDs via our partner app Viewchain. The Elephant Wallet also hit the Apple App Store and Google Play. In June, 2018 Elastos partnered with ioeX, an internet of things platform that was much anticipated. The ioeX project is a behemoth on its own and is built on the Elastos platform. **There are countless other exciting milestones that were achieved in 2018 and planned for 2019. Refer tohttps://news.elastos.org/.*\* Market Sizing, Factors, and ELA's Potential In the current market, Elastos' market cap of fluctuates between $31 million and $35 million with ~14,574,261 ELA coins in circulation ($2.1 to $2.3 per ELA) and total coin supply of 34,104,561. ELA is currently listed on LBANK, CoinEgg, Huobi, HBUS, Kucoin, BCEX, and BIT-Z, the majority of which are low volume exchanges. Binance Exchange controversy: Although various sources say different things, the evidence points to one plausible story: The Elastos foundation refused to pay Binance's listing fee and backed out of the listing the coin. Binance followed suit by tarnishing the project reputation using various media. Based on the projects scope, the team's background and leadership, the project's backers, affiliations, and partnerships, and projects with similar mandates the project has the potential to be worth close to $500 million (15x) in the short term (less than 12 months) and several billion over the longer term (1 to 2 years). The largest barrier to achieving it's objectives is adoption by developers. The chicken or the egg dilemma is that some argue listing ELA on major exchanges will incentivize developers to build on the platform because the coins value will appreciate others ague that the underlying technology must far outperform the incumbent to incentivize migration and hence drive the coins value. It's probably a combination of the two. I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on this assessment. Thanks!
The biggest announcement of the month was the new kind of decentralized exchange proposed by @jy-p of Company 0. The Community Discussions section considers the stakeholders' response. dcrd: Peer management and connectivity improvements. Some work for improved sighash algo. A new optimization that gives 3-4x faster serving of headers, which is great for SPV. This was another step towards multipeer parallel downloads – check this issue for a clear overview of progress and planned work for next months (and some engineering delight). As usual, codebase cleanup, improvements to error handling, test infrastructure and test coverage. Decrediton: work towards watching only wallets, lots of bugfixes and visual design improvements. Preliminary work to integrate SPV has begun. Politeia is live on testnet! Useful links: announcement, introduction, command line voting example, example proposal with some votes, mini-guide how to compose a proposal. Trezor: Decred appeared in the firmware update and on Trezor website, currently for testnet only. Next steps are mainnet support and integration in wallets. For the progress of Decrediton support you can track this meta issue. dcrdata: Continued work on Insight API support, see this meta issue for progress overview. It is important for integrations due to its popularity. Ongoing work to add charts. A big database change to improve sorting on the Address page was merged and bumped version to 3.0. Work to visualize agenda voting continues. Ticket splitting: 11-way ticket split from last month has voted (transaction). Ethereum support in atomicswap is progressing and welcomes more eyeballs. decred.org: revamped Press page with dozens of added articles, and a shiny new Roadmap page. decredinfo.com: a new Decred dashboard by lte13. Reddit announcement here. Dev activity stats for June: 245 active PRs, 184 master commits, 25,973 added and 13,575 deleted lines spread across 8 repositories. Contributions came from 2 to 10 developers per repository. (chart)
Hashrate: growth continues, the month started at 15 and ended at 44 PH/s with some wild 30% swings on the way. The peak was 53.9 PH/s. F2Pool was the leader varying between 36% and 59% hashrate, followed by coinmine.pl holding between 18% and 29%. In response to concerns about its hashrate share, F2Pool made a statement that they will consider measures like rising the fees to prevent growing to 51%. Staking: 30-day average ticket price is 94.7 DCR (+3.4). The price was steadily rising from 90.7 to 95.8 peaking at 98.1. Locked DCR grew from 3.68 to 3.81 million DCR, the highest value was 3.83 million corresponding to 47.87% of supply (+0.7% from previous peak). Nodes: there are 240 public listening and 115 normal nodes per dcred.eu. Version distribution: 57% on v1.2.0 (+12%), 25% on v1.1.2 (-13%), 14% on v1.1.0 (-1%). Note: the reported count of non-listening nodes has dropped significantly due to data reset at decred.eu. It will take some time before the crawler collects more data. On top of that, there is no way to exactly count non-listening nodes. To illustrate, an alternative data source, charts.dcr.farm showed 690 reachable nodes on Jul 1. Extraordinary event: 247361 and 247362 were two nearly full blocks. Normally blocks are 10-20 KiB, but these blocks were 374 KiB (max is 384 KiB).
Update from Obelisk: shipping is expected in first half of July and there is non-zero chance to meet hashrate target. Another Chinese ASIC spotted on the web: Flying Fish D18 with 340 GH/s at 180 W costing 2,200 CNY (~340 USD). (asicok.com – translated, also on asicminervalue) dcrASIC team posted a farewell letter. Despite having an awesome 16 nm chip design, they decided to stop the project citing the saturated mining ecosystem and low profitability for their potential customers.
Changenow announced the option to buy DCR with fiat.
TokenPride: "We are seeking feedback on the general setup of our payment processor. We have tried to make it simple and user friendly. 10% of all purchases made in Decred will be donated to the Decred Development fund - and we will be releasing original Decred designs in the future".
BlueYard Capital announced investment in Decred and the intent to be long term supporters and to actively participate in the network's governance. In an overview post they stressed core values of the project:
There are a few other remarkable characteristics that are a testament to the DNA of the team behind Decred: there was no sale of DCR to investors, no venture funding, and no payment to exchanges to be listed – underscoring that the Decred team and contributors are all about doing the right thing for long term (as manifested in their constitution for the project). The most encouraging thing we can see is both the quality and quantity of high calibre developers flocking to the project, in addition to a vibrant community attaching their identity to the project.
The company will be hosting an event in Berlin, see Events below. Arbitrade is now mining Decred.
Campus Party in Brasilia, Brazil. @girino, @Rhama and @matheusd talked about Decred. Matheus was interviewed by a TV channel. Check this quick report about the event, click "Show newer" to continue reading. (photos: 123)
Blockchain Summit in London, UK. This was not a full blown presence with stand but rather investigation of opportunities by @kyle and @Ani. The resulting detailed report is a good example of a document advising to stakeholders whether it is worth spending project funds.
Meetup in Berlin, Germany on July 18. @jz will give a talk and Q&A about Decred and chat with Ele from @oscoin about incentivizing developers. Hosted by BlueYard Capital.
Hey guys! I'd like to share with you my latest adventure: Stakey Club, hosted at stakey.club, is a website dedicated to Decred. I posted a few articles in Brazilian Portuguese and in English. I also translated to Portuguese some posts from the Decred Blog. I hope you like it! (slack)
Decred Assembly - Ep20 - Governance: Driving the Future (youtube) @cburniske and @traceagain discuss the importance of governance protocols being foundational and problems with delegated proof of stake
"I think that developers in the future are going to base their decision on where to build on the basis of governance and community. And so I look for good governance mechanisms and strong communities in blockchains." (@decredproject)
What is on-chain cryptocurrency governance? Is it plutocratic? by Richard Red (medium)
Apples to apples, Decred is 20x more expensive to attack than Bitcoin by Zubair Zia (medium)
What makes Decred different and better from other cryptocurrencies? (cxihub.com)
Community stats: Twitter followers 40,209 (+1,091), Reddit subscribers 8,410 (+243), Slack users 5,830 (+172), GitHub 392 stars and 918 forks of dcrd repository. An update on our communication systems:
Matrix chat logs are nowviewable on the web with the exception of some channels that are not bridged. The new web logs means our chats are now fully public and indexed by search engines.
Slack had an outage on Jun 27 that disturbed communications for a few hours, discussions continued on Decred's bridged platforms.
Jake Yocom-Piatt did an AMA on CryptoTechnology, a forum for serious crypto tech discussion. Some topics covered were Decred attack cost and resistance, voting policies, smart contracts, SPV security, DAO and DPoS. A new kind of DEX was the subject of an extensive discussion in #general, #random, #trading channels as well as Reddit. New channel #thedex was created and attracted more than 100 people. A frequent and fair question is how the DEX would benefit Decred. @lukebp has put it well:
Projects like these help Decred attract talent. Typically, the people that are the best at what they do aren’t driven solely by money. They want to work on interesting projects that they believe in with other talented individuals. Launching a DEX that has no trading fees, no requirement to buy a 3rd party token (including Decred), and that cuts out all middlemen is a clear demonstration of the ethos that Decred was founded on. It helps us get our name out there and attract the type of people that believe in the same mission that we do. (slack)
Another concern that it will slow down other projects was addressed by @davecgh:
The intent is for an external team to take up the mantle and build it, so it won't have any bearing on the current c0 roadmap. The important thing to keep in mind is that the goal of Decred is to have a bunch of independent teams on working on different things. (slack)
A chat about Decred fork resistance started on Twitter and continued in #trading. Community members continue to discuss the finer points of Decred's hybrid system, bringing new users up to speed and answering their questions. The key takeaway from this chat is that the Decred chain is impossible to advance without votes, and to get around that the forker needs to change the protocol in a way that would make it clearly not Decred. "Against community governance" article was discussed on Reddit and #governance. "The Downside of Democracy (and What it Means for Blockchain Governance)" was another article arguing against on-chain governance, discussed here. Reddit recap: mining rig shops discussion; how centralized is Politeia; controversial debate on photos of models that yielded useful discussion on our marketing approach; analysis of a drop in number of transactions; concerns regarding project bus factor, removing central authorities, advertising and full node count – received detailed responses; an argument by insette for maximizing aggregate tx fees; coordinating network upgrades; a new "Why Decred?" thread; a question about quantum resistance with a detailed answer and a recap of current status of quantum resistant algorithms. Chats recap: Programmatic Proof-of-Work (ProgPoW) discussion; possible hashrate of Blake-256 miners is at least ~30% higher than SHA-256d; how Decred is not vulnerable to SPV leaf/node attack.
DCR opened the month at ~$93, reached monthly high of $110, gradually dropped to the low of $58 and closed at $67. In BTC terms it was 0.0125 -> 0.0150 -> 0.0098 -> 0.0105. The downturn coincided with a global decline across the whole crypto market. In the middle of the month Decred was noticed to be #1 in onchainfx "% down from ATH" chart and on this chart by @CoinzTrader. Towards the end of the month it dropped to #3.
Please note: we will not accept any kind of payment to list an asset.
Bithumb got hacked with a $30 m loss. Zcash organized Zcon0, an event in Canada that focused on privacy tech and governance. An interesting insight from Keynote Panel on governance: "There is no such thing as on-chain governance". Microsoft acquired GitHub. There was some debate about whether it is a reason to look into alternative solutions like GitLab right now. It is always a good idea to have a local copy of Decred source code, just in case. Status update from @sumiflow on correcting DCR supply on various sites:
To begin with, none of the below sites were showing the correct supply or market cap for Decred but we've made some progress. coingecko.com, coinlib.io, cryptocompare.com, livecoinwatch.com, worldcoinindex.com - corrected! cryptoindex.co, onchainfx.com - awaiting fix coinmarketcap.com - refused to fix because devs have coins too? (slack)
About This Issue
This is the third issue of Decred Journal after April and May. Most information from third parties is relayed directly from source after a minimal sanity check. The authors of Decred Journal have no ability to verify all claims. Please beware of scams and do your own research. The new public Matrix logs look promising and we hope to transition from Slack links to Matrix links. In the meantime, the way to read Slack links is explained in the previous issue. As usual, any feedback is appreciated: please comment on Reddit, GitHub or #writers_room. Contributions are welcome too, anything from initial collection to final review to translations. Credits (Slack names, alphabetical order): bee and Richard-Red. Special thanks to @Haon for bringing May 2018 issue to medium.
Hello! My name is Kristina Semenova, I am the Head of Investors Relation Department at Platinum, the world’s number one business facilitator. Our team knows how to start ICO/STO in 2019! Why are we so sure? Well, our experience speaks for itself: Platinum.fund But what is the difference between ico and sto? What is the cornerstone of ICO marketing strategy? You will know this after finishing the UBAI courses! Here’s just a quick preview of our Short Course lesson. Real World Examples Multinational accounting firm Ernst and Young found that $400 million of the $3.7 billion USD raised from ICOs (as of January 22, 2018) had been stolen. That is, up to 10% of all ICO funding is virtually being stolen from investors. Though ICO scams are the most common method of theft in the crypto world, some projects will actually operate for a period of time before disappearing with the money. Like in a Ponzi scheme, an exit scam may be planned for later, sometime after a manipulated pump; or some other time the team believes is most opportune to take the money and run. Giza: Giza marketed itself as a platform within which different cryptocurrencies could be stored securely. But after raising $2.4 million in one month, the team deleted the website and stopped replying to emails. Investors were duped by a very convincing whitepaper, and actors had been hired to appear in photographs promoting the project. No investor funds have ever been recovered. Centra: The SEC put an end to fundraising for the Centra ICO and charged the founders Robert Farkas and Sohrab Sharma with orchestrating a fraudulent ICO after they raised $32 million USD. They were promoting the ability to develop financial products backed by VISA and Mastercard, though it was later found that neither partnership was real. One of the major red flags in the Centra project was the use of celebrity endorsements for publicity, reportedly paying champion boxer Floyd Mayweather a significant sum to promote their project. Who wants to leave their Blockchain investment decisions up to Floyd Mayweather, regardless of his unbelievable skill as a boxer and regardless of his own financial success? He should still not influence where you invest your money! Ponzi Schemes: Bitconnect: This is the most infamous Ponzi scheme in the history of cryptocurrency, and certainly the most damaging. Bitconnect was a Bitcoin-based project that rose to an all-time high of $463 per token on the back of a fictitious trading bot. The Bitconnect scam operated by paying dividends to users, proportional to the number of tokens they held and the number of referrals they made. The BCC tokens were exchanged for the users’ Bitcoin, and the highly sophisticated and wildly successful trading bot would trade BTC for them and distribute profits as dividends. The value of the dividends offered was approximately 1% of the initial investment per day. In other words, that is approximately 3,780% per year in cumulative gain! The referral system was capitalized upon most heavily by many of the biggest crypto YouTube channels, including CryptoNick and Trevon James, both of whom are now under investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Shortly after the Bitconnect Token reached its all-time high, they received cease and desist orders from the security regulators of Texas and North Carolina, which caused the owners of the Bitconnect exchange to shut down operations, and the price to plummet. Davorcoin: Davorcoin was a lending platform very similar to Bitconnect. And Davorcoin was farcically promoted by the same Trevon James crypto Youtuber who promoted Bitconnect, and is currently under investigation by the FBI for promoting Ponzi schemes. The Texas State Securities Board, in likening Davor to Bitconnect, stated that “DavorCoin is telling investors they can earn lucrative profits by investing in a lending program based on a new cryptocurrency known as davorcoin. Investors allegedly purchase davorcoin and then lend it to DavorCoin”. Davorcoin promptly plunged from an all-time high of $180 to very close to zero after a cease and desist order was made against them on the 2nd of February 2018. Useless Ethereum Token: Despite brazenly stating in the name of the project that the token has no use, the UET managed to raise $340,000 in its crowdsale, and saw a significant pump of over 300% on the HitBTC exchange in February of 2018. The scam was an obvious case of pump and dump, with the total trading volume for UET crashing back down to as low as $3 per day, after reaching as high as $350,000 per day during the pump. It is currently an unfortunate consequence of the decentralized nature of cryptocurrency, but there is a distinct lack of recourse for scammed investors. It is wise to become as well-acquainted with the various indicators of good and bad ICOs as you possibly can. In weighing the factors that will allow you to avoid expensive mistakes, ask yourself in whose favor are the terms of the ICO slanted, yours or the teams? To what extent are you actually likely to profit from this investment? Cryptocurrency is inherently a grey area, whether you are investing in it or not. Investing is another inherently grey area, no matter what the area or object of investing might be. Laws and regulations are not always able to keep up. Trying to define and prove what was or was not a scam is not likely to be as simple as the scammed investor would want it to be. A project can be set up in certain ways to avoid being technically classified or provable as a scam, but the unprepared investor can still be burnt or scammed just as badly. Now we look at more individual indicators that can help you form a valid impression whether or not an ICO or even a fully-fledged exchange-listed coin is a scam or a bona fide investment opportunity. Common Signposts Contrasting Scam & Legitimate Projects Presale Bonus/Token Release If the ICO allots massive bonuses to team members, you may leave yourself open to getting dumped on by presale investors if you buy when the project tokens are listed on an exchange. Likewise, if the project has a short lock-up period for developers and founders, you run the risk of them selling as soon as the token is listed on a major exchange. The token release schedule for the founders of a worthwhile project should show long-term team commitment to that project. The Jibrel Network team tokens will be locked up for 5 years before release, and they had no early investor bonus in the main sale. Both of these factors instilled confidence in the JNT ICO investors, and the tokens were sold out weeks before the ICO was due to end. No Presale lock up If Presale investor tokens are not locked up at all for any period after listing, that could easily be a set up for an exit scam after the initial listing. No presale lockup for early investor tokens is a crystal clear warning, the project may be fatally rigged toward those in the inner circle, with little commitment to the long term health or success of that project. Unsolicited Offers or Unasked for Additions to Groups Characters running scam projects will often add you to Telegram groups out of the blue or send you unsolicited emails with information about their project. Telegram is the most widely used messaging app in the cryptocurrency community and you should familiarize yourself with it to keep yourself in the loop for specific projects in which you invest as well as all kinds of other relevant crypto info. You can adjust the settings on the Telegram app to disallow anonymous additions to cryptocurrency projects if you find yourself bombarded with offers by scammers. Reputable projects at the ICO stage will spread by word of mouth, or by eloquent and meaningful articles posted on their Medium page. A project with serious potential does not need to actively seek participants for their ICO like that. They will often be able to fill their ICO hard cap in a matter of hours, or even just minutes! Anonymous Team Alarm bells, again, immediately, if the project has minimal online presence. The individual team members could be mere fabrications. The entire project could be a farce by utterly inexperienced characters. What if the project leaders are simply unaware of the importance of a strong social media profile? That in itself would be too strange to ignore. Top-level projects will have team members with experience in crypto and the LinkedIn accounts for those members will be easily accessible right there on the project website. You should be able to easily see and evaluate each individual’s experience in their field and ascertain what they bring to the project team. Bitconnect’s anonymous team should have been the only deterrent prospective investors needed to discourage them from putting money into that doomed project. Ethhorse, a current project with anonymous founders and operators should be steered clear of at all costs for the same reasons. Community Atmosphere The subreddits or Telegram groups of scam projects will often feature moderators that do not allow any kind of criticism in the group chat. If, in the process of your due diligence, you encounter didactic admins that only wish to silence your questioning of certain aspects of the whitepaper or mechanism of the tokenomics , you should be concerned. Similarly if you see a coherent critical reply attacked by many different users who refuse to engage the substance of the point being made, that may be a subreddit infested with bots. Projects that have nothing to hide will allow free debate in the chat. Ideally, they hope to develop a positive community that is itself an asset to the long-term success and overall strength of the project. Good projects do not need to automatically brand all criticism as Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD). Whitepaper One common tactic of scammers is to produce a whitepaper that uses too many buzzwords, and deliberately obfuscates and overcomplicates the explanation of the problem and/or its solution. A good whitepaper clearly and concisely lays out the problem and answer, as well as provides compelling arguments why a Blockchain solution is preferable to the current solution. Another point of concern is a whitepaper that gives unrealistic time frames and goals. Bitconnect’s almost comically optimistic profit projections are a prime example of this, as are the 1,354% yearly gains promised by Plexcoin. Respectable projects will set out development timescales in terms of quarters or years, rather than offering immediate profit projections, which are simply a red flag. Advisors/Connections in the Cryptoworld The most prestigious projects will already have partnerships made before the ICO stage, and the worst ones, i.e. the scams, will not mention any such partnerships. Icon (ICX) for example was spawned from a South Korean project named The Loop, a collaboration between 3 Korean universities and the DAYLIFinancial Group. They boasted an advisory panel consisting of the legendary investor Don Tapscott, Jehan Chu and crowdfunding expert Jason Best. On top of a solid team of advisors, good projects will also be visible at major Blockchain events such as the Consensus, and the World Blockchain Forum, etc. Scam projects will be unable to inspire this same level in confidence. As an investor, you should sense a certain presence and expect a certain feeling of trust that should guide you in your investments. After all, it is actually a people-to-people thing you are doing. Key Stress points upon the Timeline to Identify Scam Projects Post Whitepaper Release The period in the immediate aftermath of the release of the whitepaper can also be decisive in establishing the validity of a project. How a team copes with the roadmap that they have laid out for themselves is key. Valuable insight into the operational efficiency and commitment to the project can be gleaned from the quality of and amount of code committed to GitHub. If you have any experience in computer programming you can see how clean and orderly the code is, which gives insight into the skill of the developers, and in turn the quality of project leaders’ decision-making in hiring team members. Scam projects will have little or no code committed to GitHub, or at best it will be copied and pasted from other projects just to cover their tracks. Start of ICO Sometimes, a scam project, or other project in which you would be better off not investing, will change the terms of the ICO just before the ICO starts. The Key (TKY) ICO doubled the price of tokens on the day before the ICO was due to take place, because the price of NEO had risen so drastically. Currently, the TKY token price is still only half of its ICO price. Initial investors are faced with the prospect of a 50% loss on their investment. Exchange Listing Some particularly greedy scammers will create a scam project with the intent of selling tokens in the ICO for BTC and ETH, and then pumping and dumping their share of the tokens immediately after listing. The team of fraudsters behind Monero Gold used this method after the crowdfunding of their useless ERC-20 token. After listing on CoinExchange.io, the team dumped their tokens until the exchange finally ceased trading. Although it is not uncommon for ICO tokens to sold after listing (just like can happen with shares of stock after an IPO), if the price does not stabilize and massive sell walls are continually placed, a scam is likely taking place and the token is being dumped. Fake Ethereum Twitter giveaway You may have noticed Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin’s twitter handle has been changed to Vitalik “Not giving away Eth” Buterin in recent months. This is because a group of devious scammers had created fake accounts with almost exact replicas of his profile (deviating by only one character). The fake accounts promised to deposit 1 whole ETH for every 0.1 ETH the potential sucker deposited into the wallet address provided by the scammer. These fake account “Ether giveaway” scam tweets were set up to be sent in just a matter of seconds after the real person tweeted, and usually always appear immediately after the tweet of the real public figure. Fake bot profiles then came into play, thanking the fake Vitalik, or fake Elon Musk, for holding up their end of the bargain and depositing the ETH as promised. One scammer, or group of scammers, managed to fill a wallet up with almost $20 thousand worth of ETH, which they transferred out, never to be seen or heard from again. Effect of Scam Customers, Upon the Affected Parties Of course, this is no fun for the targeted public figure either. They need to take steps to avoid being targeted again. This will mean changing their handle, their username, or making their accounts private. However, the injured party with whom we are most concerned is the unfortunate scammed social media user, who has no chance whatsoever of getting his or her funds back, ever. It is a harsh lesson to learn. But it is a fact of crypto reality. Nearly every one that trades crypto will at least be exposed to frauds or scams in one way or another. In this case, we think it is better to learn about scams by studying them, rather than learn from your own unfortunate and expensive experience. In the case of Mr. Buterin, these incidents were awful public relations for the Ethereum project. It had only been a few years since cryptocurrency as a whole was primarily associated with criminality and seedy transactions on the Darkweb. Any connection with unscrupulous behavior is best avoided at all costs. Negative associations could have been particularly damaging for Ethereum’s brand because the vast majority of ICO fraud is committed using the ERC-20 token as the template for the scam tokens. Any and all the scamming or fraudulent behavior in the cryptocurrency ecosystem is bound to have a negative impact on the speed at which mainstream uptake finally takes place. Cryptocurrencies, as an emerging asset class, will be painted in the worst possible light. Crypto is aiming to, and is in fact in the process of, causing great disruption in traditional centralized finance and business. Mainstream media organizations are also part of that traditional centralized economy. Press coverage will be damning. Something is happening here, but Mr. Jones doesn’t know what it is. Legal Recourse for Scams We clearly understand, there is a possibility of being scammed. We know the scams are happening. The SEC has made some arrests and actually charged people for operating fraudulent ICOs. But it is a struggle to deal with the flood of ICOs coming from anywhere at any time. The SEC filed charges against two founders of a purported financial services startup for orchestrating a fraudulent ICO that raised more than $32million from thousands of investors. As you know from the ICOs we have covered so far, the lack of regulation allows for direct contact and dealing between the entrepreneurs, business owners and potential investors. While we believe this is a blessing according to the founding principles of Bitcoin and other alternate Cryptocurrencies, because it frees us from traditional roadblocks, middle-men, and all kinds of time-consuming procedures; it also leaves investors in a place where there is often little to no hope of ever recovering funds lost in fraudulent schemes. Actions after a Successful ICO Good post-ICO practice is characterized by stringent security, well thought-out legal strategy and clear communication. Many projects have paid the price in damage to their reputation for failing to adequately guard customer information, leaving themselves open to phishing attacks by fraudsters. Investors in the Enigma project had half a million dollars stolen from them; and a whopping $8.4 million was defrauded from investors in Veritaseum via phishing attacks. After a successful token distribution, the team’s main focus is initially on switching the enterprise from one primarily focused on fundraising, to superficially at least, a fully-fledged, functioning business. This involves removing most of the token sale-related content from their main webpage, sending newsletters to all successful ICO participants, and sending refunds to those who may have missed the deadline or the hardcap. Then, with the stressful and complicated fundraising stage finally concluded, a portion of the funds raised can be assigned to fuel the growth of the project community. This can involve hiring community managers, forum admins, and social media managers to outsource the job of keeping investors in the loop. The founders can focus on growth strategy and product development. The cultivation of a thriving and energetic community is extremely important. The community will give you free marketing for your product and your business. Community members who believe in the project, and are engaged by professional moderators, can give you very effective promotion to other prospective investors. Communication with community members is a great way to test ideas and gauge sentiment related to various aspects of your project. The project leads must set aside adequate funds for lawyers. The project will need to address potential future or imminent problems with regulators, at the very least. The transition from fundraising project to full-fledged business can be incredibly challenging, and even more stressful than the ICO itself. The main thing to remember is that your pre-sale and ICO investors are not just silent investors waiting for a return. They are the early adopters of your solution, of your product; they are the community and promoters of your project; and they are the individuals with a vested interest in the financial success of your venture. The ICO environment is not as heavily regulated, so quarterly and/or semi-annual reporting is not required the way it is in the traditional world. That means your own style of effective communication about the progress and key developments on your project matters even more. In the ICO world, you communicate with your press releases, social media, and Medium posts. You also communicate by the very nature of your relations with your exchange, and relationships with your cornerstone investors. Effective communication and good business relationships can play a prominent role in the success or failure of your venture (by token liquidity and valuation). If your investors start to lose interest, and stop trading your token on the exchange, liquidity will dry up and cause increasingly volatile price swings. You need to keep certain things in mind, and follow effective practices to maintain a happy and motivated community. Social Media & Medium In addition to your website, your social media & Medium blog most likely formed a significant part of your ICO preparations. Your purpose pivots after the ICO from one of promotion to one of communication. Consistent, informative and material Medium blogs, also Facebook and Twitter updates, ensure that investors remain engaged and well-informed of what the company is up to. Frequent activity in this space makes investors feel much more comfortable. You can foster a kind of organic community expansion that is consistently advertising your project to potential new members. Cornerstone Investors & Exchanges As we mentioned, your relationship with investors in the ICO world is different from that of the traditional silent IPO minority equity partners. Consistent, Transparent & Honest communication is incredibly important here. Even if an ICO is struggling to overcome a problem or whatever issues are occurring, honest communication from the team is key to business survival. You should think of and treat your exchange like a business partner too, a very important one at that. Exchanges provide liquidity for you and your investors. That liquidity is like the blood for your business. Many top exchanges demand nothing less than absolute honesty and integrity, it is imperative to maintain strong and comfortable relationships with exchanges. Everything we have said so far, also applies to your Telegram channel and forums too. These give you another great opportunity to build a thriving community. Team members and investors can enjoy lively debates in their Telegram channels. This can be constructive discussion, or critical commentary too. But it is always valuable as a direct link between the team and the community. It is always good to know how people are feeling and what they expect from you and your project. You are able to use your Telegram channel and forums to consistently adapt your marketing and communication strategy. Keep your investors as happy and comfortable as possible, and you will be more likely to attract new investors and allocations. Other forums around the internet operate more or less in the same manner as Telegram. After a successful funding round with the hardcap reached and time to spare, legal counsel has been secured, and the community is flourishing, the team will prepare for their first listing by paying the exchange fee and waiting for the announcement by the exchange. Unless they are willing to pay exorbitant fees for an immediate listing on Binance for example, teams will usually settle for an initial listing on a second-tier exchange. The fee charged by an exchange depends on many different factors that we will cover in more detail in the next section. ICO Company actions after a Successful ICO Real World Case Study The Basic Attention Token (BAT) project, when used in conjunction with the Brave Browser, allows users to pay micro-fees in BAT to their most-used sites. The idea was conceived by Brendan Eich, the inventor of Javascipt and former CEO of Mozilla Firefox. Investors absolutely pounced on it at ICO and the project raised an amazing $35million in under 30 seconds. The BAT/Brave project has delivered on time on nearly all of its targets, helped in no small part by having a working product, the Brave Browser, for over a year before the token launch. The project secured a listing on the premier exchange, Binance, in November 2017. A project can suffer through a disappointing funding phase and, for example, fail to reach 75% of its hardcap. The team will be only partially funded. Though they may be able to initiate the project, the value proposition of the token has been compromised, potentially forever. The market has spoken. There is limited faith in the team’s ability to complete or carry out their project. Failure to reach a hardcap is a serious obstacle on the project road map. This will mean massive revisions to the timescales for development and listing. Such a project may have to be content listing on decentralized exchanges for a period of time and they will lose any post-ICO hype that could have helped the project price to “moon” early on. There is less money to be allocated. Each section of the business will be underfunded compared to the original plan. There can be delays in code development, exchange listing, marketing and community development as well. Calling the Tezos ICO a disappointment might seem strange considering they raised over $232million. But this open-source, smart contracts fintech platform became a victim of its own success post-ICO by devolving into multiple class-action lawsuits between the founders and its foundation chairman. They suffered from a distinct lack of clearly defined roles and expectations on key positions. There was infighting at the boardroom level. This all caused an as yet unresolved delay in listing and development. This is also one example why a capped ICO can be more desirable for investors than an uncapped ICO. If the team have a set amount of capital to work with, an amount that isn’t absolutely ridiculous, like in the case of Tezos, perhaps the resultant greed and discord is less likely. Although it may not be so easy for speculative investors to make a profit from an uncapped ICO with such a massive initial market cap, it is a very impressive feat of fundraising nonetheless. Tezos’s post ICO market cap of $232million is already 64th of all projects, and would have to perform brilliantly on listing to maintain this position. Company actions after a Failed ICO Failed ICOs can mean either fundraising initiatives that have failed to reach the softcap and will therefore not be economically viable, or fraudulent projects whose sole intention was to steal from investors and do an exit scam. We’ve already covered scams and fraud projects in detail, but what happens when an ICO just fails to raise the requisite funds? Projects that are legitimate, with honest founders and developers, refund the ETH or BTC deposited by investors as quickly as possible if the softcap is not reached. The same process that is followed by ICOs that are oversubscribed is employed by those that have failed to raise enough capital. The process of returning funds back to the sender ideally should take a period of days, but more likely will take a few weeks. The Sappy Network, advised by Dan Tapscott, failed to come anywhere near to their funding goals. They are currently in the process of sending all investor funds back to the wallets from which they came. The statement from the founders read as a textbook example of how you should react to failure with the founder stating “In the spirit of transparency and honesty, we are sharing with the community that we did not reach the soft cap, and thus we will be honoring our terms and conditions and returning the Ethers to all contributors” Exchange Listing A bottleneck developed in the ICO market after the explosion of crypto prices in 2017. There was a massive increase of ICO teams on all stages along the pathway from start-up to fully listed crypto asset. Certainly, a huge part of the value proposition for both the token and the project depends on securing a listing on an exchange. It is precisely the liquidity of the token as a valuable asset on a free market exchange, that determines or even defines its value. The liquidity is what makes tokens attractive to investors, but that liquidity simply does not exist without a platform for the exchange. Unfortunately for new projects, the balance of power is heavily weighted in favor of large centralized exchanges that can pick and choose which tokens to list, and the timescale within which listing will occur. Each large exchange has its own list of pros and cons as well as its own specific procedure for coin/token listing. They also have their own particular ethos regarding the type of projects they prefer to list. ERC-20 tokens will be available for trade immediately on decentralized exchanges (IDEX Forkdelta) but those platforms are generally quite low volume, and certainly not a long term solution. Projects must often pay huge fees to be listed on the larger centralized exchanges. At first those fees will be prohibitive. The usual route is to initially list on a more reasonably priced smaller exchange like Kucoin or Gate.io. Listing Process Major centralized exchanges have the power to list anything they want, and they also each have a unique structure that projects must adhere to if they wish to be listed. Each potential new listing will undergo a rigorous examination by the exchange operators to test the feasibility for listing the token. An exchange will likely have forms available on its website that you can fill out to give them all the necessary initial information. If a particular project and token qualify for listing, the team will invariably be put under a NDA, Non-Disclosure Agreement, to avoid any insider trading or other regulatory problem s. In the case of larger exchanges like Binance, there is a period within which owners of a newly listed coin or token can transfer them to the exchange in preparation for trading. This is a fantastic opportunity for traders to make use of the likely pump that occurs after a new token is listed on a large exchange. It is common to see up to 100% increases on the first day of trading, and a subsequent dump of up to 50% or more can follow. This allows traders holding the coin already, to sell for a good profit, and maybe buy back in at a much lower price too, if they think that is a good idea. Exchange Fees There are no definitive figures available to the public regarding fees that major exchanges charge new projects to list. Binance, Bitfinex, Kraken and Bittrex have all been quoted as saying that they do not charge any fee at all but this is almost definitely untrue. Knowledgeable industry insiders estimate between $500,000 and $1,000,000 USD for listing on a top-tier exchange. (There have been more rumors of 7 figure exchange listing fees since January 2018 too). This figure will vary greatly from project to project. Various factors can affect how an exchange determines the fee for a particular project. These are some of the most important ones: Market Maker Service Required Whether or not the client project requires liquidity services directly from the exchange, or can connect proprietary ones via API, will lead to a huge reduction in listing cost. Type of Token (ERC-20 NEP-5 or DAG) Not all tokens are created equal in the listing process. ERC-20 tokens and BTC based tokens have code architecture that will almost certainly be preferred by the exchange. NEO based tokens (NEP-5) such as Ontology will be far most costly to integrate because separate new wallets have to be built to facilitate NEO transactions. The costs involved in integrating Direct Acyclic Graph projects such as Nano into the exchange structure are even worse. Expected Daily Volume Exchanges derive their profits largely from transaction fees and withdrawal fees. The trading volume a new token is likely to bring in will have a great influence on the computation of the exchange listing fee. Exchange Listing Procedures Evaluation Different exchanges have different rules for new listings. A new project must of course abide by specific rules for that exchange before they are allowed to list there. There are procedures that must generally be followed for the most noteworthy exchanges. You can get a good idea of the hurdles to be overcome before listing can take place. Ongoing relationship with Exchanges Exchanges, usually Huobi or Kucoin, will sometimes make it essential for newly listed tokens to engage in “trading competitions” after listing. Competitions can last between 2 weeks, or a month or more, aiming to increase the trading volume for that token, thereby increasing trading fees collected by the exchange, and giving the project extra publicity too. The whales may have made a nice profit already and be very happy about it; but the project token can still get stuck in a long period of stagnation and a loss of post-ICO hype. Once a coin or token has been successfully registered for trading on a particular exchange, the project must focus on maintaining regulatory compliance and paying things like annual maintenance fees too. Exchanges can investigate and delist coins or tokens to see if they have fallen below a certain standard set by the exchange. The exchange is concerned about such things as: an extended period with an extremely low volume; a team member connection to an exit scam; or other such immoral/illegal behavior. Post ICO Company Evaluation After a presumably successful ICO, the necessary funds have been obtained, and the real business, the real team challenge is now, to bring the project to life as a bona fide disruptive Blockchain endeavor! The core advantage of the ICO method of funding business startups is the lack of regulatory hurdles to navigate with regards to fundraising and fund allocation. The funds that have been raised have, in effect, been freely given to the project leads to do with what they will in a no-strings-attached transaction. Of course, there are still strings attached in that the team are tasked with making that money grow for the investors. But there is no regulatory oversight of the process. The regulatory freedom is a double edge sword. It gives a good team freedom to work however they want; and it also allows for unscrupulous thieves to use the ICO process to defraud investors of their ETH and BTC. Advantages of being Post ICO From Investor Perspective You should have little to fear in terms of fraud from a project in which you have invested, if you have done your due diligence correctly. You can expect the tokens to be distributed, and the exchange listing to take place as expected. And you know your project is totally legitimate. There are different ways to think about your ICO tokens after the crowd sale has concluded. If you are a speculative investor looking for a quick flip, you can gauge the correct moment and sell anytime you like, assuming the ICO has been well-received by the markets. From Team Perspective The post-ICO period is, from the point of view of the team, a period where stress and responsibility for the safety of investor funds is passed, in the form of ICO tokens, from the team to the investors themselves. This responsibility for tokens is replaced with the stress of building the actual company itself, and succeeding in the business as planned. A small portion of the responsibility for the project’s success is also passed on to the exchange that has listed the tokens. This is especially true if market makers have been employed by the team or the exchange to provide liquidity. After the ICO has concluded, all funds are released to the project team immediately, so they can start building their business brand, and tackling each step on the road map right away. The freedom with which startups can operate is one of the main reasons behind the explosion in Blockchain businesses in 2017. With the ICO funds safe, and money being put to work on various areas essential to the growth of the project, and the tokens already distributed to investors, the risk of fraud is greatly diminished. If KYC and Anti-money Laundering procedures have been followed correctly during the ICO phase, the risk of phishing attacks and theft will also be marginal now. At any rate, with tokens safely delivered to all participants, the responsibility has passed from the team to the investor. From Team Perspective The release of all funds and the freedom to allocate them with no supervision, as cited above, is certainly a tremendous advantage empowering the team to fulfil the entire breadth of their vision unimpeded. But it does have its drawbacks. If there is a mistake made in the allocation of funds, or an unforeseen problem arises, there is nowhere to turn to, and no means of generating further money via crowdfunding. The ICO is over; it is finished. The project simply has to work with what it has. Your community can sometimes turn against you when the market is going down. Times like that just add to the already intense pressure of presiding over a startup Blockchain business. Solution: DAICO The DAICO, or Decentralized Autonomous Organization Initial Coin Offering, is a means to integrate a more specific, rigorous and regimented smart contract schedule into the ICO process. Doing so will eliminate fraudulent ICOs, exit scams, pump and dumps, and many of the other disadvantages listed above. The DAICO method, proposed by Ethereum creator, Vitalik Buterin, will merge the core concepts of both an ICO and a DAO to leverage the most relevant features of both, in order to solve the main problems in the ICO method. For example, to eliminate the risk of an exit scam, the release of funds will be spread out over a period of time, with the next allotment only being released when a certain set of parameters are met. Buterin explains that the DAICO method will provide user protection in a manner not present in the current ICO model, ensuring funds are not misspent or used in any way contrary to the intention of investors. In simpler terms the DAICO will operate as follows: The DAICO will start with a smart contract by its executors that can set whether this is to be a capped or uncapped round of fundraising (amongst many other options) as well as including KYC requirements. After these settings have been configured, the DAICO is set into “contribution mode” and presented to the public. This stage will function identically to a normal ICO with ETH exchanged for project tokens. Once the funding period has elapsed, or the hardcap has been met, investors will have the ability to set the “tap” for the collected funds. This will set the amount per second, or amount per minute, that will be available to the executor to develop that specific portion of the project to which those funds have been assigned. If investors believe at any point that the team is misspending funds or otherwise wasting time, etc., the investors have significant options to take. Of course they could choose to release more funds to the team. But, they could also stop the tap altogether, and stop the entire ICO, by voting, and actually release all unused funds back to their own wallets from which the investment had first been made! Learn more on how to market any ICO and STO, get better understanding of security token definition and learn what a scam project is! Follow the link to read the full article: UBAI.co Contact me via Facebook or LinkedIn to know more about our services: LinkedIn Facebook
[uncensored-r/BitcoinMarkets] Bittrex locked my 5 BTC
The following post by Gregory-A is being replicated because some comments within the post(but not the post itself) have been silently removed. The original post can be found(in censored form) at this link: np.reddit.com/ BitcoinMarkets/comments/7hcskc The original post's content was as follows:
Hi, Bittrex disabled withdrawals on my legacy account which has 5 BTC stuck in it. They say they won't allow me to withdraw unless I prove my identity. I refuse to connect my identity to my crypto. This would put me in danger of kidnapping or extortion attempts. Especially as crypto multiplies in value in the coming years. I'd rather take my business to exchanges like Bitfinex, HitBTC, and Binance which will allow you to withdraw without endangering yourself. (unlimited, unlimited, and 2 BTC daily withdraw for unverified accounts, respectively) It's bad enough that they charge an exorbitant 0.25% trading fee and don't list many new ICOs, this is the last straw.
Jim Preissler, CEO AMA Session On Telegram, Friday 13 July 2018 - Everything!
For those of you who like to go through everything in their correct order to get context, here is the full AMA from beginning to end. Knock yourself out. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:01] Hi everyone Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:01] [In reply to Henry] The first 1000 will receive email either on 16 or 17, but before exchange actually launch. Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:01] Jim in the house! ?? Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:01] Hi jim trade.io, [14.07.18 00:01] Hello Jim! Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:01] [ GIF ] TSas, [14.07.18 00:01] Hello Jim S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:02] Hello jim Satish, [14.07.18 00:02] Wassup man! Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:02] Been busy getting ready for the launch and signing some more partnerships for us Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:02] Hi Jim Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:02] Good morning / afternoon / evening / go to bed to all of you! Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:03] [In reply to Jim Preissler] [ GIF ] Le Tai, [14.07.18 00:03] Hi Jim Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:03] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] yeah, thats exactly how I feel Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:04] Nice to hear the new partnerships S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:05] Hey S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:05] Jim can u tell me which all coins will be listed intialy?? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:06] [In reply to S Aggarwal] Initial will be the basic, big coins, but then will roll out a ton after, especially ERC20 Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:06] Have a bunch of listings and ICO clients that will come out quickly as well trade.io, [14.07.18 00:06] Hi Jim, here's a question and a suggestion from Phil(@PhilWall10):
When the calculator will be available for the lp pool?
I would like to see a 1% bonus for the first day that the exchange is Trading ,just for investors that held over 25,000 Tio's something like that would be nice.
Zeep, [14.07.18 00:06] hi Jim S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:07] [In reply to Jim Preissler] I am asking for those 10 basis ones Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:07] [In reply to S Aggarwal] is there a particular one that you are driving towards? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:07] Eos S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:07] Xrp Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:08] I can help out here, as the list came up a short time ago: BTC - Bitcoin BCH - Bitcoin Cash ETH- Ethereum LTC - Litecoin TIO - TradeToken USDT - May be available right at launch or at the very least within 2-3 days following launch TSas, [14.07.18 00:08] Jim, here's a question: What are the plans with FX Primus? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:08] [In reply to S Aggarwal] Both those require testing, ERC20 will be sooner S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:08] [In reply to Jim Preissler] K Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:09] Jim, Can you speak any on the progress with regards to regulations in the various jurisdictions? Which jurisdictions is trade.io currently focusing on, or which is top priority at the moment? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:09] Also can u please tell me approx figures u have earned out of ico consultantancy..? Just to have a idea about profit in ico S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:10] Also what is your status for regulatory licences?? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:10] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Working on HK, Singapore, Switzerland, Malta right now as the bigger ones. Smaller ones as well. We are meeting with regulators in the US as well HODL Droid, [14.07.18 00:10] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Same question + will TIO be tradeable with other comodities listed under FX Primus ? Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:10] Hello, Jim. My question is : After the exchange has been launched, how is the price movement of TIO in the future? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:10] Are u also acuiring one for india?? Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:10] I want to ask when can we have the new Roadmap? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:11] [In reply to S Aggarwal] @JimPreissler Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:11] Lets hold until Jim clears these questions. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:12] [In reply to Jimmy Choo] you tell me Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:12] [In reply to Jim Preissler] :)) Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:12] [In reply to S Aggarwal] India is unclear as to regulations right now Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:12] [In reply to Ro$€] After exchange and LP launches Le Tai, [14.07.18 00:13] When exchange platform support fiat? Thank you Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:13] [In reply to HODL Droid] @biggiepaul will get back to you S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:14] [In reply to S Aggarwal] @JimPreissler please answer this as well Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:14] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Do you not have any estimation for it? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:14] [In reply to Le Tai] soon, there is no regulatory issue, just want to scale into features Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:14] [In reply to HODL Droid] Most likely not, as its a crytpo asset so it will be traded against other cryptos. Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:15] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Can you clearer on that? Will we have connect with bank account, convert directly into fiat? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:15] @JimPreissler what is the ETA for decentralised exchange?? Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:15] Hi Jim, could you tell me when LP will full launch? After 30 days of exchange? And the profit of LP will count from the 1st day of exchange launch? Morbidus, [14.07.18 00:16] Will Trade.io move to comply with the SEC and other regulatory bodies worldwide as they ask for information on customer protections, etc? TSas, [14.07.18 00:16] [In reply to TSas] Answer pls Jim Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:16] Guys, kindly hold off on the rapid fire q's, pls let Jim answer one at a time Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:16] [In reply to Hai Nguyen] profit starts immediately, LP will launch after 30 days Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:17] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Full launch or Beta launch? Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:17] [In reply to Jimmy Choo] Impossible to know, however, we are actively exploring moving TIO to exclusively to be traded on trade.io exchange and delist from other exchanges, for more control over price manipulation. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:17] [In reply to Morbidus] Already started, meetings already happening. We will do what we can to eliminate insider trading, wash trading, bots, fake volumes, all the bad things that hurt customers and plague other exchnges Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:18] [In reply to S Aggarwal] There is no ETA at this time, we're fully focused on making sure we have a flawless centralized exchange and execute on the liquidity pool. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:18] [In reply to Hai Nguyen] there is no more beta, full launch is next week Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:18] [In reply to Jim Preissler] ???? Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Jim Preissler] I mean the about the LP Morbidus, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Jim Preissler] great thanks Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Sweet???? Tommy Vu, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Jim Preissler] ?????? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Hai Nguyen] profits start accumulating next week Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] Whats solution in the future to avoid sth like Bitforex? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:19] @JimPreissler will Tio offer margin trading?? " Not giving away CS, CAS and TIO", [14.07.18 00:19] When 1 tio Zeep, [14.07.18 00:19] how much coin exchange? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:19] [In reply to Ro$€] they picked us up on their own S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:20] And What about futures and options (F&O)[email protected] Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:20] [In reply to S Aggarwal] We will, working with risk mgmt to get it structured Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:20] [In reply to Ro$€] Impossible to prevent a supposed decentralized exchange from listing TIO Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:20] [In reply to S Aggarwal] Talking to some vendors specifically about this as possible partners Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:20] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] Thank you, Jim. Hope exchange is a hit. ?? Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:21] [In reply to Hai Nguyen] LP not sooner than 1 month following exchange launch Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:21] [In reply to Jimmy Choo] It will be unlike anything anyone has seen yet. Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:21] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Maybe question is about the launch only being for 1000 people. Is LP being targeted launching 30 days after July 17th? or after it is fully available unlimited> S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:21] @JimPreissler will Tio have algo trading?? Zeep, [14.07.18 00:21] jim. how much coin exchange? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:22] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] the limitation to 1000 is not really for technology reasons, its more to allow customer support to get feet under them before we pummel them Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:22] Jim, I know this a tough one, but there is a lot of specuative thoughts around what LP will share when it starts, and I saw way too optimistic, in my view. Today, the expectation of nothing will be distributed on the first month and lots will be distributed that will make TIO moon are two events of equal probability, at least for me. Can give us a better directions that any of this outcome is not a 50/50 probability? Or being more direct, how much can we expect from LP daily payouts in the first month? Nothing at all? Something more than current airdrops program? Or much more than current airdrops? thank you. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:22] [In reply to S Aggarwal] talking to a partner on that currently as well Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:22] [In reply to Jim Preissler] I mean which version of LP will launch after 30 days of exchange full launch? Beta version LP or full version LP? I see the new road map on trade.io website, it has beta LP. Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:23] [In reply to Hai Nguyen] there is only a full version of LP, there is no beta version of LP Zeep, [14.07.18 00:23] jim. how much coin list on exchange? Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:23] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Fantastic S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:23] @JimPreissler just a confirmation that u have wavied trading fee but we will get other income like spread in lp for 17 july to 17 aug (30 days after launch)?? Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:23] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Nice???? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:23] [In reply to Hiro S] The exchange needs to ramp and generate volume, then the LP will have meaningful distributions Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:24] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] not sooner or not later? Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:24] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] ??, thank you. Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:24] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Note, that its 1K on Day 1, looking to open up to many thousands, within only a few days following launch Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:24] [In reply to Zeep] depends on volume and user base of the coin. send details to [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) TSas, [14.07.18 00:24] Jim, what are the plans with FX Primus? Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:25] [In reply to TSas] Hey Tsas, i can help with that one. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:25] [In reply to S Aggarwal] correct, only trading fee waived initially Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:25] [In reply to TSas] The current initiative with FXP, is to accept TIO as a deposit method, then eventually allow TIO to be traded on the platform. Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:25] Which users will have profit from LP in the first 2 months? Only the first 1000? Any new formula to calculate S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:26] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Thanks for confirmation Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:26] [In reply to Grimlock] Definitely not sooner, and might be later. Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:26] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] Thank you, now knowing that is is limited release based mainly to help support team, it is a lot clearer.. Gives assurance that team is confident on the technology side TSas, [14.07.18 00:26] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] ?? thanks Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:26] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] No worries though, as revenue generated will be calculated from Day 1 of the launch Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:27] Obviously, the success of the LP is directly tied to success of exchange Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:27] [In reply to Jim Preissler] and vice versa i suppose Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:27] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] People harder to scale then tech Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:27] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Correct, there is no level of training that can prepare support/finance, etc. once live users come through the door. This is not our first rodeo with running brokerages, so we understand its a completely different ballgame once the bright lights are on. S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:28] @JimPreissler will there be something which tells the days profit with its details for transperancy before lp launch? Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:28] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] so, revenue generated to this point, through ICO consultancy, etc... is not included in LP? Only what is generated after exchange launch? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:28] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] They said eariler it will be included Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:28] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] As i remember, it is included Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:28] [In reply to S Aggarwal] There will be a LP distribution amount widget, but not promising that before LP launch Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:29] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] I stand corrected, you're correct, ICO consultancy rev's will be included regardless when exchange launches. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:29] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] its included Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:29] You guys ROCK!! Crypto Bling, [14.07.18 00:29] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] +1 Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:29] ???????????????????????????? Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:29] Which users will get it and how? Tommy Vu, [14.07.18 00:30] [In reply to Crypto Bling] ?? Jimmy Choo, [14.07.18 00:30] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] +10 Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:30] [In reply to Crypto Bling] [ Photo ] S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:30] Is there any hardware wallet also as a gift from selfkey partnership?? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:30] Like airdrop Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:30] [In reply to S Aggarwal] ? not sure of Q Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:31] My question pls Jim Hai Nguyen, [14.07.18 00:31] How is about Blossom wallet? Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:31] [In reply to Ro$€] .. S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:32] Can u please tell security measures taken for exchange... As these days many exchanges are being hacked even the so called best exchange i.e. binance , bancor etc Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:32] [In reply to Hai Nguyen] That wallet is under development, which makes it easier to participate in ICOs, have KYC, etc. Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:32] [In reply to S Aggarwal] And on that note.... Are there plans to provide insurance against hacking? If wallets get hacked is it guaranteed that owners will get all their tokens back? One suggestion is that part of the undistributed funds from the LP (due to tiers with percentages less than 100%) can be used to offer such insurance, If unnecessary...if not, could be retained by the company …Security is obviously of the utmost importance especially if trade.io is targeting institutional investors. This insurance would bring extra peace of mind. Johnson, [14.07.18 00:33] Jim, what measures will be taken to boost the trading volume of TIO token after launch of exchange. With liquidity pool, I think the volume might be very low as it is today DeviLpaL ~ trade.io Moderator, [14.07.18 00:33] Hold on guys. Let jim answer Q one by one Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:33] There was some thoughts that running costs would eat up the revenues that was already generated from consultancy arm that would left very few to be distributed. COuld you tell us this is not the case? And in general, costs to be subracted from LP is only direct costs that affects it, could you confirm that as well? thank you. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:33] [In reply to S Aggarwal] We have inhouse, outside team, cloudflare, fireeye, etc. S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:34] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] I think the undistributed profit (as for those having less than 100%) will add to profit of next day Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:34] [In reply to Jim Preissler] the important question is still: in case of any hacking, are we guaranteed our tokens back? Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:34] [In reply to Jim Preissler] To elaborate, virtually all client assets are kept in cold storage as well. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:34] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] We are lookng for ans on that, so I like the suggestion. Nothing definative yet Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:35] [In reply to S Aggarwal] I believe any undistributed for the day would be retained daily Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:35] [In reply to Grimlock] Agree, noone can say i am unhackable Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:36] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Thank you Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 00:36] [In reply to Ro$€] There is no company in the universe that is "unhackable" DeviLpaL ~ trade.io Moderator, [14.07.18 00:36] Ro$€: Which users will have profit from LP in the first 2 months? Only the first 1000? Any new formula to calculate Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:36] [In reply to Johnson] if you look at the token economics of TIO, it is deisgned to be more like a berkshire hathaway than a high volume penny stock. The goal is to drive value, not volume. The more value we create, and with low float, this will be good for price S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:37] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] At the end what to do with it ...it will keep on accumulating .... Better to distribute Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:37] [In reply to Paul Johnson -trade.io] We are not skimping in any areas or security, it is a high priority S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:38] [In reply to S Aggarwal] I think jim should clarify on this Ray Zhang, [14.07.18 00:38] Any news about the license? Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:38] [In reply to Grimlock] I would like to ask what the solution if that ever happens. For sure, i dont want it :) but i want to know S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:38] Do we have any security feature like bnt had to freeze [email protected] Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:39] [In reply to S Aggarwal] what was the orig Q again :) Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:39] [In reply to Jim Preissler] I definitely like that. ;) S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:40] [In reply to Jim Preissler] The question is that... What will happen to the undistributed profit due to people having less than 100% profit share in lp?? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:40] [In reply to S Aggarwal] @Guitarplyr Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:40] [In reply to Jim Preissler] concerning undistributed LP profits, they do not roll over, correct? Retained daily by the company? Soroush, [14.07.18 00:41] Talking about licenses, Jim, can you tell us which one is your top priority? US, Swiss, FX? Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:41] [In reply to Jim Preissler] I simpatize with this “insurance” would be also a nice promo tool on top of all top security measures and if security play its roles it will be an asset that company will have anyway. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:41] [In reply to Ro$€] We will xplore insurance and other things, but same ans for all of crypto, there is nothing like FDIC yet Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:41] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Or put into seperate fund, to provide insurance, buy back and burn programs, etc... :) Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:42] [In reply to S Aggarwal] cover down days is the main use Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:42] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] those can all be considered Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:43] [In reply to Soroush] scroll up a bit S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:43] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] This will be nice i think first to set aside 10%profit for buy and burn Tio and to distribute 50-50 (i.e. 45% of total ) to mgt and lp S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:43] @JimPreissler Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:43] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Its why I love this company, project, and vision so much Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:43] [In reply to Soroush] U r bit late buddy Hiro S, [14.07.18 00:45] [In reply to Hiro S] @JimPreissler can u comment on this pls. I think if LP is able to share good profits on first days that would be good marketing and this may possible because of accumulated revenues. samy101, [14.07.18 00:45] This is promising and time to buy more Tio’s. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:45] [In reply to S Aggarwal] too early to be planning or discussing buybacks at this point, most don't fully understand the long term ramifications of this anyway. Most crypto doing this haven't thought it all the way through, but that is discussion for another day Den, [14.07.18 00:46] Hello guys, hi Jim! Got a question about negative days for LP. I don't really understand how it can be, exchange should stop trading and other revenue streams should be off for that day? Oliver, [14.07.18 00:46] Are you guys familiar with Ian Balina? He was hinting to an exchange partnership in his last video. The company will sponsor his world tour and meetup. It is not binance so I was hoping it could be TIO haha Oliver, [14.07.18 00:46] *that's for Jim or BD Johnson, [14.07.18 00:46] Jim, regarding trading TIO on competitors exchange. Are there plan to get TIO de-listed from other centralized exchange? This is necessary to avoid price manipulation. Also, is it possible that these exchange refuse to de-list TIO when you request? Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:47] [In reply to Johnson] Thats answered, up buddy Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:47] [In reply to Den] There is risk making markets and providing liquidity Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:48] [In reply to Johnson] They could refuse S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:48] [In reply to Oliver] +1 S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49] @JimPreissler is that exchange he is saying TIO Hugo Cruz, [14.07.18 00:49] What r the rewards for someone the buys TIO now before launch of exchange? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49] [In reply to Hugo Cruz] Capital gains Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:49] [In reply to Hugo Cruz] Capital appreciation. S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49] [In reply to Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin] U are late S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:49] Haha Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:50] I know.. Hugo Cruz, [14.07.18 00:50] [In reply to S Aggarwal] Thats wut they said when bitcoin was 20k. Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:50] [In reply to DeviLpaL ~ trade.io Moderator] One more time Jim :) Q still Scarlet ~ trade.io Admin, [14.07.18 00:51] [In reply to Hugo Cruz] 30 cents vs 20k, c'mon man. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:51] [In reply to Oliver] I am going to find that Bitconnect guy! BITTTCOONNNEECTTT! S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:51] [In reply to Johnson] @JimPreissler please answer this Oliver, [14.07.18 00:51] [In reply to Jim Preissler] hahahaha Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:51] [In reply to Ro$€] We are only limiting to 1000 until customer service, and any other issues are under control Leo Elias, [14.07.18 00:52] [In reply to Jim Preissler] [ ?? Sticker ] Dmitry K, [14.07.18 00:52] [In reply to Jim Preissler] [ GIF ] Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:52] Are MEW or other wallets going to be integrated in such a way as to make it possible to be able to participate in the LP without having them on the exchange? If this is actually possible that is. Will Private Keys be made available to the holders of the wallets in trade.io? Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:52] [In reply to Jim Preissler] ?????? Oliver, [14.07.18 00:52] [ GIF ] Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:53] [In reply to Johnson] yes, we will try to pull down elsewhere. no guarantees they will do it though S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:53] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] It will make no sense for company. To share profit withour using assets Ro$€, [14.07.18 00:53] [In reply to Jim Preissler] That was cleared up, but how to distribute the LP profits from Ico, which custumers? Or we need the formular till LP launched? Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:54] [In reply to S Aggarwal] Asking mainly for other community members who are looking for answers from managment S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:54] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Np Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:55] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] yeah, also not sure on security on that as well. May be part of hybrid DEX solution Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:56] [In reply to S Aggarwal] And transaction fees would be high, since every transaction would be recorded on BC, cant really use ledger. Not ideal overall Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:56] Couple more questions from community members... Are there any updates on the Angel Investors Program? What roles do Kosmos, Plutus VC and Blockway Capital play in the Angels Investors Program? Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:56] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Thank you for those answers Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:57] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] We are sending them deals to look at where they know we already did KYC, took a first pass, etc. They are also bring us deals to look at as well Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:58] couple more minutes, then going to lunch! S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:58] Will Tio place there own buy and sell orders toaintain liquidity?? Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:58] [In reply to Jim Preissler] one last question from me, Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:58] are you confident that we are all going to the moon? Grimlock, [14.07.18 00:59] ?? Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 00:59] [In reply to Grimlock] ?????? Satish, [14.07.18 00:59] ???????? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 00:59] [In reply to S Aggarwal] @JimPreissler Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 00:59] [In reply to Grimlock] how much trading are you going to do :) Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:00] [In reply to Hiro S] @JimPreissler can comment on that pls, thank you. Soroush, [14.07.18 01:00] Jim, will we have any kind of voting system for new coin listings? Can you tell us anything about your plans on how new listings will be done? Would TIO owners have any privileges over others? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:00] [In reply to S Aggarwal] We will keep risk low initially, but over time us and outside (insitutional) providers will be doing this Grimlock, [14.07.18 01:00] [In reply to Jim Preissler] am just going to hold. buckle up and sit tight. is that alright with you? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:00] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Very less ... As i am all in in TIO and now dont have any penny to trade Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:01] [In reply to Hiro S] You mean operations??? No that is covered from our 50% Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 01:01] Any fear that the initial 1000 will be doing no trading since they are loyal TIO holders, and all-in already? ?????? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:02] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] Yes???? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:02] [In reply to S Aggarwal] . Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:02] [In reply to Jim Preissler] ok, it is clearer now. thank you. Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:02] [In reply to Dustin McDaniel] then we add more Leo Elias, [14.07.18 01:03] Uscitizen when ? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:03] [In reply to Hiro S] An "expenese" would be an affiliate commission or something like that, not operations Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:04] [In reply to Soroush] we are not looking to limit coins by any means, just need a controlled process to roll them out Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:04] [In reply to Jim Preissler] understand even better now. :) S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:04] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Good... So approx how many coins before lp launch?? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:04] [In reply to Leo Elias] hopefully soon, been talking to FINRA and SEC Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:05] [In reply to S Aggarwal] We will get to EOS and XRP pretty soon :) S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:05] Haha S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:06] [In reply to Jim Preissler] I want others too as have economic interest via lp Jali, [14.07.18 01:06] [Forwarded from .] Ok Tnx Got it Leo Elias, [14.07.18 01:06] [In reply to Jim Preissler] [ ?? Sticker ] Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 01:06] [In reply to Jim Preissler] ???? Johnson, [14.07.18 01:07] I Missed response on licenses, can someone please repost? S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:07] [In reply to S Aggarwal] @JimPreissler any estimate Ro$€, [14.07.18 01:08] Any plan that we can store Tio in hardware wallet like Ledge Nano? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:08] [In reply to S Aggarwal] ERC20 - we are looking at rolling out maybe 200 as soon as possible, but priority is on listing clients and ICO clients Dustin McDaniel, [14.07.18 01:08] [In reply to Johnson] Working on HK, Singapore, Switzerland, Malta right now as the bigger ones. Smaller ones as well. We are meeting with regulators in the US as well S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:08] [In reply to Jim Preissler] K Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:08] [In reply to S Aggarwal] And for you, EOS and XRP S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:09] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Thanks trade.io, [14.07.18 01:09] [In reply to Johnson] I'll PM you Soroush, [14.07.18 01:09] [In reply to Jim Preissler] Consider Tezos too plz, right now they only have two low-key exchanges available with high fees Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:09] [In reply to Soroush] sure Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:09] Maybe they can pay us to list them :) Jack, [14.07.18 01:10] hi Jim, which kind of wallet we are using after exchange go live? Jim Preissler, [14.07.18 01:10] OK, I have a hot lunch date with my 5 year old. I will be back on here in a bit. Thanks everyone!!! Jack, [14.07.18 01:10] cos Blossom is under development Hiro S, [14.07.18 01:11] Thank you Jim, very quality AMA! trade.io, [14.07.18 01:11] Thanks Jim! S Aggarwal, [14.07.18 01:11] Thanks jim for ama @JimPreissler Johnson, [14.07.18 01:11] Thanks Jim! Enjoy your lunch Ro$€, [14.07.18 01:12] Thank you Grimlock, [14.07.18 01:12] ok guys, AMA is over. Time to load up your TIO bags and check in! Jack, [14.07.18 01:12] [In reply to Jack] hi @Trade_IO, could you answer this? trade.io, [14.07.18 01:13] For your Q's please drop Admins a PM. We will collect your Q's and forward it to Jim. The AMA with Jim will also be uploaded on our Reddit page. Thank you! ???, [14.07.18 01:13] Jim,I strongly recommend that you develop app!! Paul Johnson -trade.io, [14.07.18 01:13] Thanks Jim, Admin, and of course the TIOnauts...great dialogue as usual
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